more games require SSE2 chip instruction sets

for everything else

Re: more games require SSE2 chip instruction sets

PostPosted by avk » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:27 pm

where they forget the f on the 1.0. Is that thinking correct?
Maybe they do not really forget, but someone (publisher, hardware/software sponsor) have told them "to forget". Why not? They (game developers) just do compile and run binaries on their own powerful PCs:
"Does this Windows build of our game run (and does not crash at first 60 seconds)? Perfect! Now it's to time to make it gold."

Or are they truly using double for calculations?
Although I think that no one game developers will confess that the double precision is a really needful thing, I think that is false: there is no need to use double precision floats. I must admit that I'm not a game developer. I'm just analyst :).
avk
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:11 pm

Re: more games require SSE2 chip instruction sets

PostPosted by OldBoy2k » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:50 pm

My stomach says,avk is right...we have had SSE2 since the first Pentium showed up on the horizon and yet almost 12 years later,everyone believes this brings the ultimate game performance?!?!? WTF?!What have these processors run through in the last decade?They wasted time and speed?!Don't thinks so...

Also,i do believe that AMD made a very bad deal with sharing AMD64 chip technic against Intels SSEx instruction sets because now,its obviously clear,that the direction of processors will be Intel directed and nominated.If they would have developed their own standard,we still would have a inhomogenous market and AMD would be doing good in improving their own 64bit technology and could certainly forget about SSE2 :lol:

We need 64bit:? yeah but please still compatible to 32bit software

We need SSE2 and SSE3...SSEx:? What for,playing and showing blu-rays in skaled mode?Should this make software incompatible to all old AMD processors?

So i'm quite anxious to know if its possible to cut-off SSE2 calculations and use SSE1 instead.Like avk mentioned the bit calculation is mostly unnecessary for gaming.I found a neat site about libraries of simple functions that are optimized for various CPUs.Could they be used? http://liboil.freedesktop.org/wiki/
OldBoy2k
 
Posts: 1351
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:10 pm

Re: more games require SSE2 chip instruction sets

PostPosted by OldBoy2k » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:53 pm

Now thats interesting: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 3981027917

So isn't there maybe a way to stop letting the game or application crash whenever a SSE2 shows up?!

Actually i don't really care about playing a game with all the texture features and stuff but i want at least the game to get started and played.Isn't there any way to do so?`

Okay,it may be n00bish stupid thinking,but does the crash works this way?
The application at one point sends a SSE2 instruction to the Athlon XP CPU,if that returns "i don't know what to do with this crap,user?!" Then windows2k crashed because of some unexpected failure.Is that correct?What would happen if windows just left this failure aside and continues with running the application?!

Well,usually when running unsupported chipset instructions shouldnt windows and the whole system hang or crash?So because it seems only the application exits...why not just let it continue loading the next´block of the game binaries?`!

Or does it work this way: The cpu stumbles over a SSE2 instruction and fails and windows ends the application?!

So why not put a disable library to it which tells the processor" run me first,and if you stumble over a SSE2 instruction just
jump to the next code block?!

There must be a way to stop the crash and let windows continue with the game,since SSE2 instructions are only a small piece of code used in a game.

BR
OldBoy2k
 
Posts: 1351
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:10 pm

Re: more games require SSE2 chip instruction sets

PostPosted by JH2k » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:16 pm

My stomach says the same too :lol:

About what you say to single crash instead a system crash is because the level the application is running. If it's not critical for the system, kernel space (as antivirus and firewalls do), the system isn't affected.

Why crash the application?, because, "needed or not" to run the game (indeed it is needed or the game won't crash), if the binary found and excepts a value for some variable, or whatever, and that can't be computable because it's null or faulty, it just stops or retries to run and if it is "bad programmed" so that it doesn't ignore it... crash!
JH2k
 
Posts: 140
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:23 pm

Re: more games require SSE2 chip instruction sets

PostPosted by OldBoy2k » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:25 pm

:D he hee

Thanks for the information and for your interest.So is there any way you could think of preventing the application to crash?
OldBoy2k
 
Posts: 1351
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:10 pm

Re: more games require SSE2 chip instruction sets

PostPosted by JH2k » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:25 am

I don't know as I'm not a programmer but maybe with something as a wrapper listening for SS2 calculations requests and emulating them...
JH2k
 
Posts: 140
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:23 pm

Re: more games require SSE2 chip instruction sets

PostPosted by avk » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:45 am

Guys, it is very hard to write the SSE2-emulator or wrapper which can handle with SSE2-games. There are lots of work and tons of nuances. I think that it would be much more useful, if rejected gamers would write an open petition to the game developers, asking them to release SSE1-binaries of their SSE2-games. That's why I have asked AMD to help, but seems with no luck :(. I think that it is truely unfair when somebody can run a modern PC game if he or she has SSE2 CPU like Pentium 4 1.4 GHz, but somebody cannot if he or she has much more powerful (at least as twice) Athlon XP 3200+.
avk
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:11 pm

Re: more games require SSE2 chip instruction sets

PostPosted by OldBoy2k » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:35 pm

MMX Emulation Library Project for Linux/x86
http://www-sop.inria.fr/members/Sylvain ... s/mmx-emu/

..so it would work without complete system emulation.

Value Meaning
PF_3DNOW_INSTRUCTIONS_AVAILABLE The 3D-Now instruction set is available.
PF_COMPARE_EXCHANGE_DOUBLE The compare and exchange double operation is available (Pentium, MIPS, and Alpha).
PF_FLOATING_POINT_EMULATED Floating-point operations are emulated using a software emulator.
This function returns a nonzero value if floating-point operations are emulated; otherwise, it returns zero.


Windows NT 4.0: This function returns zero if floating-point operations are emulated; otherwise, it returns a nonzero value. This behavior is a bug that is fixed in later versions.



PF_FLOATING_POINT_PRECISION_ERRATA Pentium: In rare circumstances, a floating-point precision error can occur.
PF_MMX_INSTRUCTIONS_AVAILABLE The MMX instruction set is available.
PF_PAE_ENABLED The processor is PAE-enabled. For more information, see Physical Address Extension.
PF_RDTSC_INSTRUCTION_AVAILABLE The RDTSC instruction is available.
PF_XMMI_INSTRUCTIONS_AVAILABLE The SSE instruction set is available.
PF_XMMI64_INSTRUCTIONS_AVAILABLE The SSE2 instruction set is available.


IsProcessorFeaturePresent

Hmm where can this Intel benchmark tool be found?
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 3981027917

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms724482(VS.85).aspx
OldBoy2k
 
Posts: 1351
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:10 pm

Re: more games require SSE2 chip instruction sets

PostPosted by avk » Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:42 pm

No, guys. No one will spend a lots of his time to write an SSE2-emulator even using a third-party sources and/or utilities. The only way to make an SSE2-games run without the SSE2 is to argue their developers and/or publishers to (un-)officially release a non-SSE2 game binaries. I think that it's impossible without a massive petition.
avk
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:11 pm

Re: more games require SSE2 chip instruction sets

PostPosted by OldBoy2k » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:09 pm

avk wrote:No, guys. No one will spend a lots of his time to write an SSE2-emulator even using a third-party sources and/or utilities.
he hee,depends on the enthusiastm of the programmer :wink:

avk wrote:The only way to make an SSE2-games run without the SSE2 is to argue their developers and/or publishers to (un-)officially release a non-SSE2 game binaries. I think that it's impossible without a massive petition.

Well,IHMO that doesn't lead to any satisfactory success either,since most support is out-sourced to "forums" so you won't be able to reach the developers anymore so easy.That great close-up-customer-support is long past :(

Hmm Petition?Did you ever checked the actual Steam database on Single Core users using Steam?!Its below 17% and i believe 8-10% count to AMD XP processors.

Wait and see,i guess i found someone dealing with these chipset extension problems with a lot enthusiastm :D
OldBoy2k
 
Posts: 1351
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:10 pm

Re: more games require SSE2 chip instruction sets

PostPosted by OldCigarette » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:24 am

avk wrote:That's why I have asked AMD to help, but seems with no luck :(.


AMD makes money if you have to upgrade your CPU. Just a thought.
OldCigarette
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:35 am
Location: Qo`nos

Re: more games require SSE2 chip instruction sets

PostPosted by avk » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:11 am

OldBoy2k wrote:he hee,depends on the enthusiastm of the programmer :wink:
Well, I'm definitely not a one of those enthusiasts.
OldBoy2k wrote:Hmm Petition?Did you ever checked the actual Steam database on Single Core users using Steam?!
There different methods of persuading are exist ;).
OldBoy2k wrote:Wait and see,i guess i found someone dealing with these chipset extension problems with a lot enthusiastm :D
Ok.
OldCigarette wrote:AMD makes money if you have to upgrade your CPU. Just a thought.
Of course, because every commercial enterprize do strive to the profit, it is obvious. But I've been hoped that AMD will help those gamers who can do count their money. Alas :(.
avk
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:11 pm

Re: more games require SSE2 chip instruction sets

PostPosted by downwithvista » Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:40 am

SSE2 was first introduced with the original Pentium 4 way back when in 2001. The first AMD cpu's to include it were the Athlon 64's back in 2004. So, what we're saying here is that even if the game didn't use SSE2, I'm sure the performance would suck, even if you had a great graphics card. Graphics cards can only go so far.

I really doubt that "no one will use single core CPU's anymore" on Steam. Half-Life/Blue-Shift/Opposing Force, Counter-Strike, and TFC are still pretty popular, and run really well on classic hardware. Plus, HL2/E1/E2, Portal and TF2 work pretty well on my single core. But hey, I'll go dual core when I have the money to.
Windows XP x64 Service Pack 2/AMD Phenom II X3 720 (unlocked to an X4) @ 3.00GHz/5.5GB RAM/HD 3870
We're the exception, not the rule.
downwithvista
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:30 am
Location: United States

Re: more and more games require SSE2 chipsets

PostPosted by DosFreak » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:20 am

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/cpus/

Single core CPU's now down to 18%, dropped from 23% in Sept. Guess those Steam users bought some Windows 7 machines!
DosFreak
 
Posts: 237
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:04 pm

Re: more games require SSE2 chip instruction sets

PostPosted by OldBoy2k » Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:21 pm

Some more games may work with this AMD no-SSE2 fix for the nvtt.dll libray.Check crashlog about the hooked nvtt.dll.This fix was created for Borderlands:
Nvtt.dll with no SSE2 fix (unofficial AMD Athlon XP fix)


BR
OldBoy2k
 
Posts: 1351
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:10 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Offtopic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron